Linus

From	Linus Torvalds <>
Date	Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:36:15 -0800
Subject	Re: [Regression w/ patch] Media commit causes user space to misbahave (was: Re: Linux 3.8-rc1)
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On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Are you saying that pulseaudio is entering on some weird loop if the
> returned value is not -EINVAL? That seems a bug at pulseaudio.

Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

It's a bug alright - in the kernel. How long have you been a
maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel
maintenance?

If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the
kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to
understand?

To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter
CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error
return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No
such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done
on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that
ENOENT would ever be valid.

> So, on a first glance, this doesn't sound like a regression,
> but, instead, it looks tha pulseaudio/tumbleweed has some serious
> bugs and/or regressions.

Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious
garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another
error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken
by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown
yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly
and immediately myself.

WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't
break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email
was so _horribly_ wrong, and the patch that broke things was so
obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an
insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a
few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").

The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space,
and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just
shameful. It's not how we work.

Fix your f*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken.
And fix your approach to kernel programming.

               Linus

Klassischer Torvalds-Ausbruch zu einer Zeit, als er gelegentlich noch aus der Haut fuhr.

Ich persönlich wäre schwerst angepisst, wenn mir jemand dermassen an den Karren fahren würde, Torvalds hin oder her. Umso eindrücklicher die coole Antwort:

Date	Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:21:35 -0200
From	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <>
Subject	Re: [Regression w/ patch] Media commit causes user space to misbahave (was: Re: Linux 3.8-rc1)
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Linus,

Em Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:36:15 -0800
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> escreveu:

> To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter
> CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error
> return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No
> such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done
> on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that
> ENOENT would ever be valid.

Agreed: ENOENT was a bad choice, and it should be reverted.

What I'm trying to understand is why pulseaudio is complaining.
Is it because it only accepts EINVAL error code for media controls?

I'm asking it to Rafael because I'm pretty sure that other drivers
don't return EINVAL when a media control is not available. So, the bug
may already be there, and probably got noticed on 3.8-rc1 because most
notebooks come with UVC cameras installed internally.

> > So, on a first glance, this doesn't sound like a regression,
> > but, instead, it looks tha pulseaudio/tumbleweed has some serious
> > bugs and/or regressions.
> 
> Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious
> garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

OK.

> I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another
> error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken
> by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug.

Ouch!

> And you've shown
> yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly
> and immediately myself.

OK, please apply it.

I suspect however that just applying Rafael's patch may not be enough,
as the bug may still be there affecting all other drivers.

> WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

I know and I'm doing my best rejecting patches that could potentially
break userspace in advance.

Sometimes shit happens. Sorry for that.

Cheers,
Mauro